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Forum » Forum » Questions » Room for Improvement (Some Questions about How to Advance further in the Game)
Room for Improvement
blinerqFecha: Monday, 2017-02-13, 8:26 PM | Mensaje # 1
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Heyho,

me and some friends have been doing the map for quite a while now, and are able to do pretty OK on it we think. We were able to defeat Death (with the Blacksmith Meele DMG Reflect Item) but that´s how far we get. Honestly, we are rather casual Players and are not perfect when it comes to clearing the jungle, knowing when to do which boss etc - do you have any advice? We are all going tower first and play mostly Combos of these Heroes:

Blacksmith, Grom, Worker, Wendigo, Little Child (used the STR-Vampire, did do okay but not too well), Unholy Knight, Pandaren Battlemaster and Assasin

We always go Tower first. Do you have any advice on how more casual players can go beyond Death? Or even do Death without Blacksmith. Or how to advance better/faster with the neutral bosses.
DrekTharFecha: Monday, 2017-02-13, 10:31 PM | Mensaje # 2
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Hey!

First of all, don't go for tower first. Make sure you can hold your ane and still move away to jungle extra gold. This will speed up you item progression.
If you want to do better I recommend looking through some replays. Some other strong heroes to try out are: dark ranger, keeper of the sky, little child (abomination), defender, berserker to name a few.. these are all capable of killing death.
KarifeanFecha: Monday, 2017-02-13, 10:35 PM | Mensaje # 3
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My first recommendation is to look to improve your farming and item progression. Everything else comes after.

Learn to pull creeps together in as little time as possible, learn what items you need when and for what. Winds Boots are generally an essential item in the midgame, though you usually want to get one Tier 3 (Legendary) item before that. More often than not building a tower early on is unnecessary and only slows you down overall. Any time you spend idling on your lane once you're level 10+ or so is time you could spend clearing some jungle creeps. Don't have the mana for it? Change your item build so you have the mana for it, or be more efficient and selective with your mana use. Maybe even get Scrolls of Town Portal (+ Boots if you have them) to make regular trips to the fountain without wasting too much time. All of this is relevant for EVERY hero in the game.

Once you've got your farming improved you'll have a lot more options on your hand when it comes to fighting high-end bosses. Your 3000 damage Assa might suddenly have 6000 damage and you can buy all the items you'll ever need. At that point it's a matter of figuring out boss patterns, how to deal with their strong points and how to exploit their weak points to take them down.

Most if not all of this knowledge comes with time and experience.

Some concrete tips though: 1. Try some more supporters, like Mur'gul Shadowcaster and Keeper of the Sky. Your team generally seems a jumbled mess where everyone does similar things but nobody does them exceedingly well. A team of specialized heroes might be preferable. 2. Strength heroes that have trouble dealing damage early on do well with a quick Emerald. 3. Arcane Scepter is every magic damage dealer's (except for Jaina's) best friend.
blinerqFecha: Tuesday, 2017-02-14, 12:23 PM | Mensaje # 4
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Surely, i forgot some heroes in the list, we do make use of Mur´gul and Jaina for example, it´s just that the players don´t use them with their full potential sometimes, Half Demon Wizard is also rather funny (Stacking the Living Mountain)

Jeah, the problem is also that we have 2 rather good players and 2 that are often struggling/making mistakes (when we have to build new Defilers because someone couldn´t handle Siege Golem for example), at least we all already make use of boots

Jeah, tried the New Heroes yesterday, both did pretty well, but we kinda failed at Death because we forgot his AOE Instakill. Berserker (the hero i played) could oneshot almost every Dragon (Hidden Power, twice resetted via Champion Sword/Excalibur, Stamina, Battle Experience, after Excalibur Rage+Feel my Pain); not going tower first went pretty well for him
Does the Tier 2 Item Spell Shield also block Deaths Spells?

The Team yesterday was Centaur Impaler (at least nuked the FD with Holocaust scepter), Thief (was better in theory than in practice), Defender, Berserker.

Today we think about going Grom (Stronger Early Game than Berserker for more neutral boss killing), Blacksmith (because the items are just OP), Jaina/Medivh/Kael (some strong early-mid mage for jungling) and Satyr Shadow Stealer (Support/Agi DD)
also going to try to utilize cleverness text more
DrekTharFecha: Tuesday, 2017-02-14, 1:36 PM | Mensaje # 5
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The spell shield does not block death's spell. Neither does Jaina's invul shield. And it's not an instakill spell. I believe the damage is 40k true damage (which means you cannot reduce it).

Those heroes are fine, I just don't see a lot of dps there....
KawsFecha: Wednesday, 2017-02-15, 7:07 AM | Mensaje # 6
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You should try using a Defender. As long as he has an Arcane Scepter(or Jaina), defender can nuke Troll, Ancient, and Dragon Turtle to death with just an Unbreakable-empowered Shield Bash at level 18. Later bosses require a Bloody Edge to spam with Unbreakable-empowered Divine Toughness, and you'll want a Chronos eventually, but Defender can mostly solo everything up to Ligeia/Faceless/Azzazel, so that'd be covered. Defender can also facetank Death's AoE if need be.

And you can often turn him into a DPS character if you stack over 1100 Attack Speed. Probably as strong as two assassins if given the right items.
blinerqFecha: Saturday, 2017-02-18, 8:45 PM | Mensaje # 7
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Did try BS-Assa-Worker-Grom. Killed Death, failed at Michael (maybe we could´ve killed him if Death didn´t wreck the Base as we failed to fight him in the Regeneration-Pool-Range of the Worker) Assa had about ~12k Add dmg (with 250% increase by an item and the Worker Aura); jet our combo lacked sustain without the reg from the well. There was also plenty gold left in the end - shall we build towers? And which ones?

Also, our Grom was rather useless (tbh, its also because the player doesn´t improve a lot, carrying Boots of Courage and trash around instead of valuable drops around the time the dragon lane bosses appear :/ ), change Grom for Defender/Berserker/Some serious Tank or Mage/Supporter?
KawsFecha: Sunday, 2017-02-19, 5:01 AM | Mensaje # 8
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Try having Worker farm Unbroken for Sacred Axes and then equip their Shandris with it. It's a quick sure-fire way to kill both Death and Michael as long as you have a tank.
blinerqFecha: Sunday, 2017-02-19, 7:40 PM | Mensaje # 9
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Jeah, i guess the neutral bosses are more or less our weak spot, because I have no idea how to farm unbroken with worker without planning ahead alot for example. Also, we only did the neutral bosses until Turtle (because neither Assa or Grom could defeat it because of the reflect and BS+Worker being to weak by themselves). 

Is Crush that mighty?

When i watch other peoples replays, i have to admit that at least 2 of our Players (if not all of us) simply lack the skill/experience/improvement to advance this much. Our Early-Mid Game is too slow, while i see other people already doing Behemoth/Forest Troll and more bosses even before Ogre Lord and doing Dragon-Level-Bosses before Hydra.
KawsFecha: Monday, 2017-02-20, 7:15 PM | Mensaje # 10
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Quote blinerq ()
Jeah, i guess the neutral bosses are more or less our weak spot, because I have no idea how to farm unbroken with worker without planning ahead a lot for example. Also, we only did the neutral bosses until Turtle (because neither Assa or Grom could defeat it because of the reflect and BS+Worker being to weak by themselves).


That's why you need heroes who can deal with reflect damage. Use heroes who can deal magic damage or ranged heroes to bypass it. Maybe even use Admiral - he can cleave Dragon Turtle to death using Behemoth as a proxy, and cleave doesn't trigger reflection damage.

Quote blinerq ()
Is Crush that mighty?


Yes, it is.

Worker ideally needs at least six Sacred Axes on Shandris to have the desired effect, but Admiral or Marine with a single axe can make up for 90% of that. Crush is simply %hp removal that goes through everything, so it's an easy way of bypassing all types of defense, including extremely high hp.

Can you imagine how long it'd take to kill bosses with over ten million hp without some form of %hp damage? That's why Lich Book costs 67000 gold.
DrekTharFecha: Monday, 2017-02-20, 7:59 PM | Mensaje # 11
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Grom and assassin are perfect to deal with dragon turtle. Grom can just counter and run around, using bladestorm to make him immune vs fire. Assassin can life leech higher than the dmg return (which btw is fixed and not a % of attackers dmg).

As for crush, it deals damage based on the current hp of an enemy. Therefore it's useful to get the hp down in the beginning, but you need something else to finish the bosses off.

Lastly, the fastest way of killing bosses are either as % spell damage or eith armor reduce physical damage. Assassin and grom are kind of opposites in that regard. You should select your heroes around a strategy and be able to execute it as well. Good luck!
Forum » Forum » Questions » Room for Improvement (Some Questions about How to Advance further in the Game)
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