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Forum » Forum » Ideas » Some thoughts. (About the current state of the game.)
Some thoughts.
Glass_HouseFecha: Friday, 2017-06-30, 8:44 PM | Mensaje # 1
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Hello everyone. I wasn't exactly sure in which subforum to post this but this seems to be the most appropriate.

I started thinking about all the things I'm about to talk about when I realized one of my favorite heroes, Blood Grunt, had been completely outclassed by Berserker. Come to think of it, Berserker outclasses many heroes.
So, Berserker will be my first topic. In a few words: this hero is unbelievably broken. Many of you must have already seen the recently posted replay of Berserker soloing Wisp. Yes, that's how OP he is. Now, I'm not saying no hero should be able to solo Wisp. It took a lot of effort and preparation to pull it off, and I commend dreadknight90 for doing it. He clearly is a master of the game. But his replay made it clear that Berserker is ungodly strong.
I don't like the "nerf to the ground whatever the most powerful ability is" approach that many games have towards balancing, so I don't think Inmortal should merely reduce the damage of Berserker's nukes (ok, maybe a little bit tongue ). The current strategy with berserker seems to be to stack Hidden Power a bunch of times and then release it and use Champion Sword/Excalibur to reset your skills and continue stacking it. You lose the Strength gained with Hidden Power, but the damage and attack speed remain. This gives him a very powerful attack that guarantees he can farm easily mid-game. I think this skill reset abuse is the most important thing that should be fixed in him. He can keep his strong late game, but by fixing this he would be weak in the early and mid game and be reliant on others heroes to pull through. Instead of being a one man army.

Moving on, but still related: there is some obvious power creep in the game currently. All the most recent heroes (Berserker, Defender, Party Team) have been insanely strong.
Old heroes can't keep up with them... But, before someone points out that Inmortal is aware of this, let me say that I am also aware that he is aware of this. He has been buffing older heroes since forever, and the results have been satisfying. Obvious examples that come to mind are Infernal, Demon Hunter, Archer (Goliath I haven't tested yet, but his new skill looks promising). These are heroes that have been mad relevant thanks to some much needed buffs.
So, what I'm saying isn't simply "Buff older heroes!". Inmortal has made it clear that he knows this needs to be done and has been dealing with this issue very competently. What I feel like saying instead is "Buff older heroes... a bit faster please!" biggrin
I don't want to dictate what Inmortal should do, I trust him fully to do what is best to the game, he has proven many times that he knows exactly what needs to be addressed. But I suggest that there should be a patch/version where he would focus entirely on addressing balancing issues, mostly looking into weak heroes and finding a way to make them relevant.

Also, I'm aware that there are underplayed heroes that ARE good, but their strength has simply not been realized by the players yet. Still, the majority of the frequently picked heroes are played because they are miles ahead most heroes, and most of the underplayed heroes are indeed weak.

PS: just to end this needlessly long post in a positive (though completely unrelated) note, I'm very pleased with the new in-game missions! Great idea!
hisgenliFecha: Saturday, 2017-07-01, 1:17 PM | Mensaje # 2
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Well i didnt watch the replay because i am always on the newest wc3 version, but i dont think he did that without having incredible drops and playing really well. I know a lot of people that pulled out stuff like that in the past. Inmortal has the choice now. He either changes the hero which i myself wouldnt to because it is a very unique hero now or he changes the boss which i also wouldnt recommand since laika is one hell of a boss if you dont know how to handle him or you just dont do anything and wait for the progression of other heroes. As you mentioned it, Inmortal should really upgrade older heroes which he did in the new version.
Also it depends on your goal, how you want to play the game. You can go for the aim to kill all the dark force bosses that appear till none appear or you can kill the castle and the final boss Doom or you can try to do both of the stuff in SM or you can just do some other stuff. After the replay it turned out that Berserker is good vs. bosses in normal mode. I bet with you that this hero sucks in SM vs bosses. I would pick Paladin now over Berserker in SM if i had the choice. You see the difference? Everything is relative. 

"Also, I'm aware that there are underplayed heroes that ARE good, but their strength has simply not been realized by the players yet. Still, the majority of the frequently picked heroes are played because they are miles ahead most heroes, and most of the underplayed heroes are indeed weak."

On earlier versions i had the discussions with Inmortal about good or bad. There are heroes that are good and others are bad considering different circumstances. But you gotta see that there are also heroes for beginners (normal) or advanced players (hard) or pro players (extreme). That doesnt mean that those normal heroes should be weak but they should be "simple". It is still discussable which of the heroes are how difficult to play but remains to be discussed on other circumstances. Beastmaster or Archer are not heroes that you typically choose in your team to kill all lanebosses but you can defenetly pick them to survive in a SM game.

To sum it up: i dont think that Berserker should be changed, you may disagree which is fine. If your goal ist to solo Laika, it turned out that Berserker can do it which is fine by me. If you want to solo Sheep, have fun with that^^. If you want to duo Sheep, have fun with that^^. If you want to triple Sheep we can talk. 

Have a n1 one.
Glass_HouseFecha: Sunday, 2017-07-02, 0:37 AM | Mensaje # 3
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Good points. I admit that I don't play SM so I didn't have that in mind. And maybe it is true that some heroes are made with the intent of simply killing Doom. I just think that this is something msot players quickly move away from and start trying to kill neutral bosses. It doesn't help that the new missions are all about killing neutral bosses too. So there are a few heroes that will see play in very limited circumstances. Though that's not exactly a bad thing. Inmortal has the final word about the utility of each hero and maybe he wants it to be this way.

About Berserker, I'm not exactly bothered about him soloing Wisp. Doing that with any hero is an accomplishment worthy of praise. What bothers me is that he solo'd Wisp too easily. Of course, he played very well and he did have an essential drop that made his strategy work (Arcane Staff, i think that's the name. The item that lets you hex an enemy). But still, here's how the fight went:
cast Hex on Wisp -> Use all your nukes -> use Chronos -> Hex Wisp again -> cast nukes again.
Simple as that. I think that speaks volumes about the strength of the hero. But, as I said in the original post, the only nerf I think is needed is removing the attack damage and attack speed retention when you reset your skills. Being able to do that means Berserker has a insanely powerful attack + insanely powerful nukes. I think it would be more balanced if you had to pick one route or the other.

(And, on a personal note, I'm also sad that Berserker's Battle Experience has made Blood Grunt's Explosive Blood completely obsolete sad )

Going back to the older heroes topic, there are some heroes that clearly need to be looked into. Off the top of my head, Necromancer and Priest are two heroes I have literally never seen anyone use. Though as I said, I don't play SM and maybe they are good there, though I doubt it. I'm not sure what to do with Necromancer, but regarding Priest, he needs to gain at least one buff/heal that rivals one of Murloc's skills (seriously, is there any reason to pick any other support hero when Murloc exists?).
jasieknmsFecha: Sunday, 2017-07-02, 1:52 AM | Mensaje # 4
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Quote Glass_House ()
Necromancer and Priest are two heroes I have literally never seen anyone use
I am one of the people who actually played every hero 2-3 times atleast. the thing is like mentioned above, it depends on your goal if you want to have some fun you can go ahead and pick necro, 5 skeles with items and max circe books + aura can easily kill doom, and actually some of the "stronger" bosses. but obviously stand no chance vs anything with decent aoe etc. like most summons/units. the only good thing priested used to have was his dmg buff and map range-heal, but if u want that u can go child priest or murloc. I personally belive the heros need some unique stuff, maybe make the necro skeles magic immune? (could be very strong, maybe too strong. I hope you know what i mean, we have after all like 4 "priests" , 3 "necros" (little child forms)
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