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Forum » Forum » Ideas » Some ideas for improving the map (I really like this map, but it has problems and shortcomings)
Some ideas for improving the map
anomalus355Fecha: Saturday, 2018-03-24, 10:54 PM | Mensaje # 1
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Good afternoon, I do notspeak English well therefore I write through an interpreter.
I really like this map, but it has problems and shortcomings that need to be fixed
1. There are many useless items in stores (on the base).
2. At the end of the game, players simply have nowhere to put gold (when they kill such bosses as the Lord of
Darkness). And some bosses have to kill for hours! It's very frustrating. Need new items!
3. Some heroes are not balanced relative to each other, for example, the
Garitos aura gives only 20 hp regen, a little attack (30 if I'm not mistaken) and run speed, and the aura of the new character from the beta version 1.23 gives 60 hp regen and 2500 hp and speed, (description aura is not correct and the aura gives less than 2500 xp.).
4. The landscape of the map is bored, some places on the map take up a lot of space and do not need anything to fix them.
For example: the location with the bear where the coin is too big. In the forest with crabs, the mountain in the water takes up a lot of space, you can replace it with the exit from the lake (where Behemoth is). And the forest can be slightly changed for faster collection of creeps in a heap. Also on the map there are incomprehensible squares from the earth inside which there is nothing , why not remove them? And in the corners of the map there are barrels and stones in them you can hide flasks or other items for the early game (Low Quality Armor, Leather Helm, Simple Sword, Lighlty Sword, etc.), I think many would like it. It would also be cool to decorate the appearance of the walls of the Dark Forces and Light Forces and make them impassable so that bosses such as death could come only through the line, and not from the woods, horse-radish knows where. The mountain on the left side of the map (where the dragon) can be changed and made so that you can get to it only through the cave that is near the central line in the trees where the acolyte stands (thereby you can expand the location) and make the hit to the dragons for some players problem and a riddle, and to get to this cave will help with
he item from paraghraph 6, under the name The Cutter.
5. Also I would like to talk about the tournament fashion, he is not needed in this map, I did not see it wrong that people would play with this mod, he does not like anyone because the map is played by fans of hardcore RPGs, not arenas !!! The one who wants to fight with a friend in this map, let him play in HOE-pvp. The arena in the corner of the map can be removed  there will appear a place for other bosses.
6. About the subjects and courier. You can make a courier like in DotA with different functionssuch as: bring a item (if there are no slots in the inventory let it put the item on the ground), go back to the fountain, go to the secret store. Also I suggest making a new kind of courier with a temporary increase in speed-running ( +200% MS) hp (+8000) and armor (+200) and its cost will be (= 5000 gold). Well, what about the item you can add to the Fruit Stand store called The Cutter, which will cost 2250 gold, give 45 damage and 15% AS, and the ability-Slice (Cut Tree) by CD-40 seconds. I have a lot of ideas for assembling and combining items, but I will continue this topic if the author of the map becomes interested in my ideas.
7. Many people write that they need to add a new secret store, and I agree with them. You can add a new kind of object to the game (legendary orange color). This store can be made invisible and can be made so that it appears after the linear boss, for example, hydra.If you do not have ideas for new items, as mentioned in paragraph 6. I have good ideas about this. These items should be slightly unbalanced since they will be very expensive, their assembly should be problematic in order to have at the end of the game such items were not many (2-4), as well as you can limit the hero's inventory with theselegendary items (1 hero  can have 2legendary items ) .
8. On the map it would be nice to add the total cost of the items of assembly, then the player will not choose which item to collect first, and which second, he will be able to see the price and understand what's what. It would also be desirable for the element type to be signed from below, for example, inmortal (rare) and Supreme (epic), but this is just an example you can made something more interesting.
9. And how do you feel about expanding the boundaries of the map and mines-raids? ( if it is possible of course). For example, on the map there are 3 acolytes that if you can talk to them and they come to the Azazel's lair and if the player brings the desired item (quest item) or after killing the entire chain of bosses they will open in the upper left corner of the room a portal to the raid (which will be a fenced part of the card in which it will be possible to get through only the portal, and when trying to teleport with a boot to a friendly NPC player will teleport to Azazel's lair). By the way, a secret store can be made in one of the raids or in each raid to create its own store. Or is there another idea with a monolith stone that if across the map in each forest and in the mountains near the ogres make a hidden hostile beast that will have a 100% chance of evading the enemy's attack but it will have only 100 hp and it can be killed by any spell caste and when all these animals are killed on the map, a signal flashes on the monolith going to which the entire forest in the upper left corner disappears and the monolith explodes, after which appear the dragon of  Ysera(The Dreamer) or continuing the tympanic entrance to the emerald dream where this boss will be. Also, by deleting the zone of duels below, you can somehow quietly put a protected portal with the name Cave of Time that will carry you to the bosses with different terrain formulations that will change each time with the appeared boss (if you can do so), and transfer will again be beyond the limitsmain map (the names and appearance of the bosses can be taken as the antagonists of the world of Azeroth).
10. Here is another interesting point, there are one mistake in the heroes of the empire. In fact, this map can be passed very easily. You need to kill Doom, but the players just pull to kill the Golden Bahamut, I think it's stupid, the final boss should be very hardcore (after all, the essence of Doom is the last boss whose players kill, following him the final boss). What if Doom is only the guard of the passage to the main boss, let's say after his death on the site of the dark citadel, the portal to the final boss will open, which will also transfer the players beyond the limits of the map. Suppose the name of this boss will be the Avatar of Dark Forces or Dark Titan or something like that. In addition, you can set a timer to kill it, and if the players do not kill it then they will not win (the timer will start to reset the time with the Doom killing). As for the bosses, many have passed the heroes of the empire completely and such people are asking to create new linear bosses. I have a few interesting ideas, after Gold Bakhamut you can make 4 bosses namely 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (1 line to the left - Disease Rider, 2nd line - War Rider, 3 (mid) - Death Rider, 4th line - Hunger Rider. After them, Lucifer may come out, and after him Knight Apocalypse (with the Lich King model), also to avoid questions, you can rename the Apocalypse Dragon to Sapphiron.
11. It is also possible to make a very unusual change, because the enemy side is the Dark Forces, this means not only the undead but also the other enemies of the Forces of Light. Let us dump on the first line (on the left side) will be attacked by demons, on the second defiled orcs, on the third undead (mid), on the fourth representatives of various defiled by the legion races. Or it is easier to do on 1 line attack demons, on the second undead, on the third again demons and on the fourth undead. And the line along which the troops go to change in appearance, respectively, with the race, the structure can also be changed. And try to balance all these waves with each other, but to be honest this is a very strange idea, which I wrote to find out the opinions of other people.
12. And in the last paragraph I would like to write about new models of creatures. For new bosses, you can search for suitable models on the Internet, and why not decorate the Kingdom of Dark Forces and Light Forces? Also, some Bosses are very huge and it sometimes irritates them to do less.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope the author of the map will answer me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Message edited by anomalus355 - Monday, 2018-03-26, 6:15 PM
killmanpitFecha: Monday, 2018-03-26, 11:15 AM | Mensaje # 2
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Ok. So most of those issues have already been answered many times. So propably noone is going to anwer you too soon. So I'm going to anwer instead.

1.
a) There are no usuless items. You just don't know their usage. There are many underrated heroes who under very special conditions use very special items to kill a boss super early.
b) Understanding which items are usefull for which heroes at which point of game is part of the hero of the empire's fun. Changing items so they are all super strong against any boss on any hero would be less fun and rewarding.

2. If you don't have where to put your gold, you propably are not playing the game 100% efficiently. You can always build towers/buy items for your allies/buy items for mercenaries, or buy very specific items to kill neutral bosses earlier.. If you end the game with 100k gold. It means you propably could have gone further (or at least could have increased you chances of going further)

3. As you noticed. 1.23 is still in beta, so don't complain about balance in it. Also some heroes can have very specific task at very specific moment of the game. Just because you think this hero is underpowered doesn't mean it is.

4. Layout of the map is in my opinion very specifically designed for stacking heroes (e.g assasin) not to be overpowered. If you changed the forest to be easier, additional entry to behemoth those heroes could become op. Also its very fun and rewarding to find ways to stack all creeps in forest for more efficient creeping, also it gives some underrated heroes (e.g necromancer) additional functionality (did you know that necromancer ulti can chop down trees so that you can have easier access to all parts of map?) As for the furbolg with the coin example, I also thing its a balancing issue. You don't want obtaining that extra 500 gold from 2 early coins to be too easy. 

5. I think that's a fair point. Since HOTE pvp exist tournament format is kind of a waste of space.

6.Couriers are fantastic topic. I also think there could be more variety with couriers. Courier skills etc. That would be super fun.

7. This one is debatable. In my personal opinion There could be an extra secret shop. I don't think it should have unbalanced items. Just more items. It could also be moving around the map (e.g. goblin zeppelin model) So that it's difficult to track him and always worry about him leading you to some super strong neutral boss. I don't think it's necessary though.If you want super OP items just play blacksmith. I think secret receips are more fun and rewarding mechanic than additional shop.

8. This could be good mechanic. Just as good as buying whole finished item for a price of all ellements+ receipe. this could also be made to decrease the RNG. Set a price for each droppable item (e.g legendary armor 20k) and make it possible to buy special items (e.g absolute) without waiting for drop 

From me: I think neither you or me understand the game at level at which Inmortal understands it. And I trust he knows what is the best for the game. I agree its super fun to run suggestions though and I do think something productive might come out of it
anomalus355Fecha: Monday, 2018-03-26, 2:34 PM | Mensaje # 3
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killmanpit, Thanks forthe comment, it was very interesting to know your opinion but in some moments
you misunderstood me.
1. I wanted to say that some items are not collected by the players (and some of them are
unnecessary!), Because they are not needed in the future game or they just have
strange properties, since they work in an incomprehensible way. For example,
the health stone, it is quite expensive and is restored in the xp area to the
allies and gives a few statistics, I rarely play for sappers, so maybe I'm not
smart, but the essence of this subject is incomprehensible to me, since money
can be spent on something useful.Soul Edge for what it is needed ?
I do not understand Tizona how it works is not written and how to understand why to
collect it?
Or it is useless Sprightlines it is useless and it is collected only by new players of
this map.
I'm not saying that they need to be removed, but I need more different interesting
items in this map, but the above mentioned items are useless. But if you know
what they are for and you have a different opinion on this, explain your
opinion and explain why they are needed.
2. Towers and units are certainly cool, but they are almost useless against such bosses
as Lalka. And the new items could help to live on these bosses, I certainly do
not want Lalka players to kill in solos, but I want to fight with her not look
like a rape hero 1 blow, but as a very interesting fight with new mechanics and
tricks. As you probably already guessed, I would like to have the bosses update
and make them new abilities. I always try to use all the chances of winning,
and when I have gold left this in most cases means that it is superfluous. For
example, I played solo on the weekend for an assassin and scored 6200 attacks,
killed Death and knocked out Michael xn to a value of 40000xp, I had about 20
centaurs of overlords and a few golems, there were many towers (stop tavern).
while I still have 170k extra gold. cool  cool  cool  And I think this is an indicator of the fact that in this mapthere are not enough purchased items.
3. It was just a warning about the skill, I thought I had to report.
4. Well, here I got excited and at this point you are 100% right, but the design of the
map just did not change, because it would be possible to do something about it. smile
7. Yes, the question is controversial, but why not try to add the store to the new beta
version and not see how the players are doing it. About shops I'll write a
couple of new ideas a little later. happy
And finally: yes I agree Inmortal knows what will be better for this card because he created
it and he probably has some plans for her, but we are all people and we are the
same, so Inmortal needs our help with the creation and improvement of this
maps. Therefore, I think that my business is to write and propose, and what he
will decide himself. And
if someone has something to write, do not hesitate and suggest, maybe your idea
will please many, and Inmortal will add it on this map.


Message edited by anomalus355 - Monday, 2018-03-26, 3:20 PM
killmanpitFecha: Monday, 2018-03-26, 11:40 PM | Mensaje # 4
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1. Ok. So i can't say about other 2 but soul edge is cheaper and better alternative to mugen when i'm playing assassin. Mugen is gives about 300 dmg boost 120% attack speed, and 12% chance for 5.6 damage crit. So you attack at 2.2 your old attack speed and your damage is increased by 67% by crits alone. So in conclusion Mugen gives you on average 367% damage increase +300 flat damage, Soul Edge gives 250 damage boost, increase attack speed by 70% and gives 60% for 2.2 crit. So you attack at 1.7 old attack speed and damage is increased by 1.3 by crits alone. So in conclusion you gain on average 391% damage + 250 flat damage. The more damage you have on your own, the less significant the 50 damage difference is. Then there is a price. Mugen is a bit more than 15k (don't have time to check exactly) with all the parts to build. Soul edge is a bit more than 13k. that's 2k difference which is roughly 10-15mins as assassin considering it's mostly early game. The only reason why mugen could be considered is because it is part of decapitator and/or red mugen. But at that point I usually either have masamune or even justice which is simply the best option of them all (i don't remember exact stats, but i was checking it). 

2. Sounds like a super fun game. I think with propper stun towers you might have had a chance with michael there but i might be wrong, and it might be drop dependent. Assassin is super squishy on its own. The gold surpulus there is typical in solo games. And this map is not meant to be played solo. Just as you said. If you had efficient ways to spend gold you might be able to kill bossess like Laika solo too easily (i'm pretty sure it's possible. IT's just none had yet figured it out)

3. OK smile

4. Yeah there is this huge strip of land with only acolyte in it. The cave behind revenant leads to nowhere. There is still some potential in this very layout. I guess we'll see what will immortal do with upgraded map editor which will allow him for more tiles in general

Yeah i think the forum discussions is about as fun as the playing alone
PhosphorusFecha: Tuesday, 2018-06-19, 6:55 PM | Mensaje # 5
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Can you make the game lag less by improving the triggers
yy19980428Fecha: Thursday, 2018-06-21, 11:49 AM | Mensaje # 6
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Gold has never been sufficient for me and my team members. Usually we will at least give every team member a Supreme,
and if memory doesn't go wrong, that will cost us
8*(400+900+2600+900+4500+4200+8600+32000+32000+15000+2600+2600+5000+2200+1150+600)=922k.
We always manage to exploit the resources of the whole map as early as possible, so if you think gold is too much, try to arm every team members and you may find more interesting cooperation approachs.
Forum » Forum » Ideas » Some ideas for improving the map (I really like this map, but it has problems and shortcomings)
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