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Forum » Forum » Ideas » Tier 3 and 4 Items Review (Which items are never used and need reworking?)
Tier 3 and 4 Items Review
KarifeanFecha: Friday, 2018-06-01, 3:27 AM | Mensaje # 1
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I figured rather than make a post about what items are bad and what items are good, I figured let's look at what its are used often and what items are used rarely. So even if you think "well this item is not bad for its cost", if it is never ever used by any players in practice it still serves no purpose and does not need to be in the game. Regardless of if they're good or not, they need to be stronger or at least different to compete.

Let's start with Tier 3 items.

TIER 3 - LEGENDARY WEAPONS
Glacial Sword - Used often. No problem.
Mugen - Used often, both as upgrade and as its own self. No problem.
Excalibur - Used often. No problem.
Soul Cutter - Used very rarely, but has its place in fringe use cases. I think it could stand to be a little stronger, with more damage or maybe agility bonus.
Soul Edge - Used very rarely, but IMO underrated by a lot of players! Insanely good crit and not even 15k cost, a good item if you get Justice later anyways. No problem here IMO.
Ikki-Thousen - Used often. No problem.
Decapitator - Used often in recipes, has its place in armor reduction comps as a standalone item. No real problem there. Upgraded version however is never used, damage is simply too insignificant an upgrade compared to cost.
Battle Trident - Used never. There are no Strength heroes that are better off using this item instead of Emeralds. This item needs to be stronger and more useful IMO.
Tizona - Used never. Its stats are too low and Sight Rip only lasts a few seconds. It could have its uses, but other items are better. If this item had more Agility, like 200 instead of 100, it'd be more attractive.
Sprightliness - Used occasionally. A decent AGI + Defense hybrid item. No problem.
Darkness Broach - Used occasionally. Cheaper alternative of the Soul Cutter and works in team games well so usually the preferable option.
Royal Emblem - Used rarely as a standalone item. A pretty good allround item, it has its place I think, it's just too expensive to be useful early on for most people. I think lower stats and cost might be okay, but then again, its cost is deliberately high I know.

TIER 3 - LEGENDARY DEFENSE
Perfect Emerald - Used very often. No problem.
Inmortal - Used all the time. A quintessential item. No problem.
Divine Armor - Used basically never by anyone, except as an ingredient to Helm of the Underworld King. Along with other items it's simply outclassed by Inmortal because Inmortal gives Hero armor.
UNBEATABLE - Used in fringe cases. Really is not very good because mana shield ignores your armor. Could use a buff.
Untouchable - Used often. Very useful since it got its buff. No problem.
Golden Helm - Same as Divine Armor. Simply outclassed by the Hero armor on Inmortal. Otherwise a decent alternative to it, but not having Hero armor (and also not leading into Absolute later on) is just too much of a deal breaker. IMO both Divine Armor and Golden Helm should give Hero armor.
God's Atom - Used often. No problem.
Batallion - Used very rarely, but does its job as an item on the path to Legion Doom Horn. Maybe could use a buff especially since new Summoned Unit Items and Circe Book are simply much stronger, though.
Talisman of Cursed Bones - Used never by anyone, except as an ingredient to Legion Doom Horn. It gives really low stats and still costs over 20000 Gold. It's just not worth it. The 60 Armor aura is completely outclassed.
Orb of Time - Used never. I have literally never seen anyone make this item. It needs a complete reworking because I just do not see it ever used, and I do not see a reason to ever use it, as it is.
Legacy - Used occasionally. More useful since The Legacy was added in latest versions. No real problem.
Perseus - Used rarely, but has its uses. I think it would be far more interesting if it had Wind active ability and used Wind instead of Warrior Boots in its path, but that might make it too powerful.
Bloody Edge - Used rarely. There are insanely few heroes where 20% of max HP is a significant amount of damage, although it has its uses on those few (Goliath, Abomination, etc.). Still, I think it could use a buff, maybe have the ability deal some flat extra damage in addition to 20% HP, or make it give significant Strength bonus. As it stands you get infinitely more use out of a Perfect Emerald in most cases, and Perfect Emerald is cheaper with much better build path.

TIER 3 - LEGENDARY SUPPORT/MAGIC
Thunder Scepter Level 3 - Used rarely, but has its place. No problem I think.
Arcane Scepter - Used all the time. A quintessential item. Tooltip is wrong, it actually OVERWRITES enemy resistance instead of just reducing it. It is simply too powerful not to use, and it's insanely cheap. I think it needs a serious nerf, or cost much more gold.
Diamond of Knowledge - Used occasionally, has its place. Definitely a great pure Intelligence and mana regeneration item. No problem.
Talisman of the Spirit - Used almost never. I guess it has its purpose, but I never see this item used. Maybe it's balanced, maybe not, either way, as it is it's practically useless. Could use a rework.
Ultima - Used almost never. It is not nearly as strong as Exodus or even Perfect Topaz, costs so much more in comparison and enemies killed with primary damage do not respawn. It seriously needs a buff, or needs to be part of Exodus recipe, to compete.
Sacred Gem of War - Used very often, especially as its upgraded version Perfect Ruby. No problem.
Commander Wish - Used rarely, but has its purpose especially with its upgraded version. No problem.
Horn of Stampede - Used occasionally. Definitely has its purpose. No problem.
Perfect Topaz - Used occasionally. Actually does a lot more damage than most people realize (over 20000) and is a good caster item with HP and survivability. No problem, except it seriously outclasses Ultima lol.
Chronos - Used all the time. A quintessential item. No problem.
Sacred Mana Sphere - Used on Dark Ranger and only on Dark Ranger. Seriously have never seen anyone else use this item, but on Dark Ranger it's just impossible to pass up on. I guess it works as it is, but maybe some way to make it more attractive to other heroes would be okay?
Circe Book - Used often. Has its designated purpose. No problem.
Sorcerer's Amulet - Used never. 3xINT just is not enough to be relevant, ever. It seriously needs a buff, or upgrades that make its passive effect more powerful.

TIER 4 - BEYOND LEGENDARY
Dragon Slayer - Used often. Does exactly what it should.
The Heart of Searinox - Used a lot in recipes, but never ever as a standalone item anymore. It used to be good, but there are so many alternatives now; so many item give all stats boost and much better stats. It really needs a buff (all versions of it) to be useful again.
Ares Sword - Used rarely, but has its purpose. I think it's too expensive for a relatively mild effect (could be a Legendary Item instead, never miss is not that useful overall).
Absolute - Used all the time. A quintessential item. No problem.
Legion Doom Horn - Used occasionally. I think it's too expensive (it's the most expensive Tier 4 item in the game), but it still finds use. No real problem.
Slicer - Used occasionally. Definitely has its place, with one of the best critical strikes in the game. No problem.
Lich's Book - Used occasionally. I think the recent damage nerf on it was too much, nobody uses it to deal damage to bosses anymore. Still useful to kill trees though. I think damage should be higher but duration and cooldown much lower. Just a idea.
Atlas - Used occasionally. Thanks to upgrade possibilities it's actually pretty good now IMO. No problem.
Exodus - Used occasionally. Definitely still a great item for casters. No problem.
Gladiator Armor - Used almost never, except as a component. Strength and Armor are not that rare anymore, nowadays spending 52000 Gold basically just to COMBINE two mediocre items into one slot is not a very good trade. Could definitely use a buff.
Helm of the Underworld King - Used occasionally. Has its place. I think the barrier could stand to shield from more damage (you never see anyone actually use it to block Dragon or Magic damage anymore), but generally no problem.
Orb of Darkness - Does exactly what it should. No problem.

Some other items:
Magic Gold Chest - Used pretty much never by anybody. It just is too much of an investment that takes too long to make back. Could use a buff.
Dust of Appearance - Why does this item even exist.
Warrior Boots - Used rarely.
Enchanted Necklace / Unholy Gloves - Used never by anyone.
predragovictomislavFecha: Friday, 2018-06-01, 8:58 AM | Mensaje # 2
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HI there!

I will say few words for one item:

Royal Emblem -  perhaps this recipe could be 4200 gold but you need lvl 3 for next upgrade, start with lower stats but every lvl give better stats (also could add 10%/20%/30% magic resistance per lvl since this is only effect that is "lost").

Nice job!  respect
hisgenliFecha: Friday, 2018-06-01, 11:55 AM | Mensaje # 3
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Battle Trident: A must have for Arthas and Admiral; especially if you go for perma stun.

Royal Emblem: Its costs are fine cause besides its a normal item its also a enchanted item.

UNBEATABLE: Agree; i wonder if its possible if mana shield would include armor; this would make Keal also stronger.

Golden Helm: It would be cool if this item would also lead to Absolute; and have other benefits then Inmortal so you have 2 options to start the game with a defensive item.

Bloody Edge: I think this item is fine; maybe add another 5% to it. Maybe future heroes will benefit from that item.

Talisman of the Spirit: Gets used when you can make it work like on GOLIATH 6 HOUR GAMEPLAY (Killing Sheep Solo).

Ultima: Very good dmg vs buildings on Level 3! But the "not spawning" should get nerfed.

Magic Gold Chest: Yeah should give a little bit more gold; then it would be really good; its the only item (besides the one which gives more gold on selling then it cost ...) that generates money; it  should also work on horses or sth. so you dont always have to swap items.

Enchanted Necklace / Unholy Gloves: I see it used in SM for Beastmaster; pretty good attack speed item for units besides Commander Wish.

Dust of Appearance: I hope for invis bosses; invis shop in the future^^. Also it should be the Far Seer effect from WC3; cause right now when i remember correctly you cant make Unbroken Area visible when you stand next to it.

But besides these items i agree with your list.

KarifeanFecha: Friday, 2018-06-01, 4:46 PM | Mensaje # 4
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Quote Karifean ()
I figured rather than make a post about what items are bad and what items are good, I figured let's look at what its are used often and what items are used rarely. So even if you think "well this item is not bad for its cost", if it is never ever used by any players in practice it still serves no purpose and does not need to be in the game. Regardless of if they're good or not, they need to be stronger or at least different to compete.
Quote hisgenli ()
Royal Emblem: Its costs are fine cause besides its a normal item its also a enchanted item.
Quoting my OP again just to re-insist on the purpose of this thread, it doesn't matter how "good" it is, I've literally never seen anyone actually make the Royal Emblem for the stats it gives as a normal item. Rarely I've seen it made for the enchanted stats, and primarily I've seen it made only as a component. That's why I feel it needs a change. I guess maybe if you can make an extra 10000 gold fast, but well, that's not exactly an easy thing to accomplish and pretty much every hero has other essential items and then, the emblem isn't worth it anymore. I'll admit I can think of reasons to use Bloody Edge and *maybe* Talisman of the Spirit.

I mean Ultima is basically like, if it was a component of Exodus it'd be perfectly fine and balaned, ironically enough. I guess it has its use cases though... but it feels like it "should" be a really important caster item but in practice never sees usage cause it's just not worth investing into.
Dean123Fecha: Tuesday, 2018-09-04, 10:07 PM | Mensaje # 5
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Someone should do something like this for abilities too. I feel like most abilities are there just so the hero has 5 abilities and are meant to be used literally never in no scenario whatsoever.
E.g. every +stats ability ever (i.e., medusa, arthas and so on), weak ass damaging abilities (i.e., Warden aoe shurikens and so on). It doesn't matter if the hero is overpowered or underpowered in this case.
I'm talking about skills that even if you have every skill maxed out by some miracle, you would absolutely never use this particular useless skill.
Sorry to derail this thread like this.
LunarFecha: Saturday, 2018-09-08, 9:35 AM | Mensaje # 6
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Hi,
I have few idea about some items:

Thunder Scepter Level 3: it cost total 27,700 to have 6000 spell damage, 5s stun, 26s cd -> may be too expensive. I think maybe reduce recipe cost & can upgrade to infinite times, spell dmg = Scepter Level x default dmg.

Ultima: yeah, this one same Thunder Scepter, ~25k for 4,3k dmg and make unit does not spawn, terrible sad I agree that it should be part of Exodus recipe, but also need to be buff or decrease the cost.

Sacred Mana Sphere: one time i use this one on Kael & Little Child (Archer Form), not affect much. May be add an active skill for it, use all hero current mana to cause dmg.

Sorcerer's Amulet: I like this style of this item, but 3xint is too low. I have try this with Kael, not affect much, this hero have animation to long sad some prev version I can Shift + Click on 1st skill to active this item, I just test again, not work anymore. Maybe set this item have more X int, and can be upgrade to more level.

Unholy Gloves: I have use this item one for BM to make quest complete game fast (not sure quest name), it to weak in recent version, I think can improve it by make the spell to AoE, not target

Soul Cutter: this item disappear on menu to buy.

Untouchable: can be upgrade to another items: pure reflect dmg or pure block dmg with higher change.

Legion Doom Horn: this item is really good, but these items needed in recipe does not have much affect in the game.

Few words about another things
I does not have much time to play, so many items i still have not use yet. I like hero with summoned unit or magic dmg, but too much unit to control make me confused @-@ :D, sometime i managed good at early and mid game but at late game I start to confusing with my units and lost the game with no idea why :|

And currently there hero have a big imbalance, Azura (I don't play this hero much, only 2 or 3 times, too many many units :D) and the others. Hoping in new version there imbalance no more smile
Forum » Forum » Ideas » Tier 3 and 4 Items Review (Which items are never used and need reworking?)
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